Allow cloudless local instance

Emporia Energy Community Product Ideas Allow cloudless local instance

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    • #6167 Report Abuse
      hackish
      Member

      I would like to have the unit configurable so it sends the raw measurements to a local server. Not all sites have internet access, and it would be ideal to have it able to send data to a local device, either to cache for a later upload or for locally collecting it – ie a raspberry pi or something similar would be nice – integration into openhab or homeassistant would then be doable.

      I suggest allowing the destination URL to be configurable to something like api.emoriaenergy.local instead of api.emporiaenergy.com. I’m sure someone here can write a server to collect the data, but it would be nice to have factory supported to help in this area.

    • #6174 Report Abuse
      Marty @Emporia
      Emporia Staff

      @hackish You’ve probably seen in these forums that we have APIs on our roadmap in the coming months to help our customers integrate the Vue into their smart home ecosystems. We understand that some people may want to log and analyze their data locally; however, our software, hardware, and business is developed around collection and analytics of energy data in the cloud. Therefore, we currently don’t have any plans to support local logging or data collection.

    • #6181 Report Abuse
      hackish
      Member

      I can understand that your business is designed around the cloud, but there are a number of markets, such as remote solar arrays where it could be used, but not everyone has reliable or inexpensive internet. In addition, the history of security surrounding cloud-connected IOT devices hasn’t exactly been stellar. The ability to host a device like this locally enables integrators to purchase and install it in environments where internet is not guaranteed.

      Unless you’ve got something like wink planned where suddenly all subscribers will be obligated to pay a monthly fee or have their devices turn into bricks, I see this as a win/win situation. There is an increased market with no ongoing costs associated with every device you’ve sold.

    • #6636 Report Abuse
      Pragmatist
      Member

      I agree 100%. Being dependant on someone else’s cloud service is a BIG disincentive to purchasing these products.

      Not only does it limit creativity in presenting the data but it makes potential customers suspicious that they will get locked into a product that will eventually have a monthly fee associated with it. That’s what Google did with their “free” photo storage.

      Perhaps of even more concern is that the server will eventually disappear leaving us with a bunch of now-useless hardware. That just happened to me with ConnectSense monitoring devices that, as of December 31st this year will no longer have a cloud server to report into. 😟

    • #6725 Report Abuse
      jj613
      Member

      I strongly support this idea.  I appreciate the cloud model of your business, and I think it makes sense.   But there is a strong case to be made for SOME local data collection.     Mine is the following:  We get a lot of trees falling on our lines.   These take out power *and* internet.  The Vue is great for managing power draw on my little generator.  I can see what’s going on, how near I am to generator capacity, what devices are drawing power and when …. it’s great.

      But what if I have power, and I have local network and wifi in my house, but I don’t have internet service?

      There should be a “local mode” where the vue app can connect DIRECTLY to the Vue, over my home network, without the cloud, and do some basic things.  I don’t need full-blown app functionality!   Just the basics to get me through a storm.   This would be SO SO valuable.   Your little device would take my $800 generator and give it manageability features of a $30,000 generator, just like that.  And it would help me when I need power management the most, when I really really NEED it.

    • #7051 Report Abuse
      oziee
      Member

      If I had known that your purpose for this unit is to collect and sell my information I would not have bought this!! You are not even willing to accept that some users have the means and would rather store data locally and consume that data in their own specific way. Your way of displaying data fails to accurately consider alternative tariff settings for seperate inputs, for solar generation. Being able to LOCALLY consume data without relying on cloud based storage is something I would rather see as an option. You have recently changed your data retention settings as it is, so moving forward this might get even worse and we loose even more data, data that I could store myself in the way I want

    • #7052 Report Abuse
      waterboyz
      Member

      Oziee said:  “If I had known that your purpose for this unit is to collect and sell my information …”

      Did I miss reading about that in the fine print or Terms of Service?  Maybe I need clarification from Emporia.

      I agree, once we get hooked will they continue to offer less?

      • This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by waterboyz.
    • #7070 Report Abuse
      jpenyc
      Member

      Go to check how the emporia and the latest bill line up. Get notice servers are down till 1PM EST, thats another hour and a half give or take. Got here looking to find out if there was any option to collect local data. See there is not, and not plans to give any. Then, that the data is being sold. I should have read the eula. I just bought two and have them integrated into my HomeAssistant with no problem. The no Net, no Data is No Fly.
      Hopefully I can still return them.

    • #7075 Report Abuse
      jj613
      Member

      @jpenyc what have you seen about data being sold?   The EULA permits Emporia to use your data for marketing products to you, and aggregated data for any purposes.   That’s pretty much how all companies work today, and all the more so when ongoing service is free such as Emporia’s is.   I’d be interested to know what you saw or read about Emporia selling your data?  Is there something new that should alarm me?

    • #7543 Report Abuse
      Paul
      Member

      I gave up on the Emporia Vue a year ago as with my less than stellar internet connection the data I was getting was horribly unreliable causing more frustration than anything else.

      I agree that a local hosting option would make this product more useful. I have poor internet (rural area) and after struggling for months to try and make this work I was forced to give up. I would frequently see circuits report the EXACT same reading for minutes or even hours at a time because my data was not making it to the cloud so the server simply regurgitated the last data it received until it got new data. Bad data is worse than no data! The connection is apparently UDP so the device sends a packet to the cloud and has no idea if it made it or not and has no capability of resending as it has no idea that a packet (or 50) didn’t make it to the cloud.

      It took me too long to figure out what the problem was so I can’t return the system and with the unreliability of the data I can’t be bothered to fart around with it and fudge the numbers to get something marginally useful. The devices are already bricks as far as I’m concerned.  There is NO reason that your cloud software could not be run locally other than you don’t WANT it to be.

      To the others on this thread

      North America Bundle (120V)

      is a similar product that while more expensive DOES operate locally thus more reliable in installations where internet access is poor or non existent.

    • #7590 Report Abuse
      jpenyc
      Member

      Thanks for the product heads up.

      Re-read this post and reminded what @marty-emporia said

      Therefore, we currently don’t have any plans to support local logging or data collection.

      I don’t blast the business model, but making the data available locally in addition to the cloud for those who would like to access (unreliable service, off grid etc) costs nothing. Tends to lead me to believe that they are following the Will.i.not winky dinky debacle.

      What’s the harm of an option to mqtt out the data?

    • #7591 Report Abuse
      Pragmatist
      Member

      I have two complete Emporia systems with a total of 32 sensors. This was a significant investment in both $ and time yet I’m totally dependent on remote servers over which I have no control.

      Since my purchase, Emporia has already changed how long they save some of my historical data. They did this without asking my permission.

      Without a way to capture my data from my system on my server, I will always be at the mercy of the Emporia servers. These servers could become less responsive or less reliable over time or could eventually cease to exist.

      This is no way to run a railroad. 🙁

    • #7626 Report Abuse
      wz2b
      Member

      I wrote a separate post in the product suggestion forum but I think what I would like is to just have the emporia gateway device spit out periodic UDP updates the same as how weatherflow does it.  Look at their documentation and how simple it is.  https://weatherflow.github.io/Tempest/api/udp.html

       

    • #7663 Report Abuse
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      At no time during the purchase via Amazon Uk was I made aware that I would be, required, to send my electricity usage data to a third party in a different country, in order to obtain any stated functionality.

      Tomorrow. 24/06/2021 I will be lodging a formal complaint against Emporia energy with the information commissioners office in the UK. I will also be considering what legal options  I have to reclaim the expense of the product and installations fees from any UK legal entity.

      The device will de-powered tomorrow, and my forum membership will be removed after this post.

      My electricity usage data is [not] your business.

      We take this sort of thing [very] seriously in the UK.

       

    • #7862 Report Abuse
      chris153002
      Member

      Out of curiosity, does any one know of any alternative firmware projects for emporia view devices? i know the vue 2 has an esp32 at the heart of it.

    • #7924 Report Abuse
      nateguchi
      Member

      I agree with all the comments above. Emporia must be forthcoming with local data access or they will lose the faith of its community

       

    • #8025 Report Abuse
      sutekh
      Member

      I’ve had several of their devices sitting in my Amazon cart for months. I’d love to install them in my home (4 x 16 sensor devices) and my cabin (1 x 16 sensor device) and send data to my local InfluxDB / Grafana instance, but I’m not buying anything until they provide a local access API. Emporia’s now two plus year old assertions that “it’s in our backlog” or “we’re just a small team” is no longer believable.

      Emporia: You could make this happen ASAP if you wanted to (don’t even offer support!) You’ve chosen not to. I suspect the rationale there is that you’re holding the door open to eventually start charging for access to the data. You’ve got threads full of people on your forums dissatisfied with that position who’s all been burned by abandoned vendor technology and it’s costing you business. You make a niche product that appeals to nerds and techies. It would be a mistake to assume we represent an insignificant portion of your potential market opportunity.

    • #8027 Report Abuse
      5310HA
      Member

      Hi

      Please STOP asking. They don’t want to provide it.   How do I know is I have probably have the only Vue that was configured to access a local MQTT broker.  SO I’m the prototype.  It works great provide updates every second to the MQTT broker that updates my Home Assistant and it feeds into InfluxDB and outputs to Grafana.  Just what you want.  To make it work, they need to allow their app to point to the address of your MQTT broker and provide a outline of their topic profile.  But they don’t want too.  Don’t want to support it. It not their market.

      5310

    • #8032 Report Abuse
      sutekh
      Member

      Okay, so YOU’VE got a one-off solution and now we’re all just supposed to stop asking now? Ha! Not likely. It absolutely IS their market, and they’re losing it. I’d happily pay MORE for a device with local access, as many others have also claimed.

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