Correct Configuration for Multiple Vue + Solar

[movax]

Hi all —

Looking to understand / make sure I have my Vues configured correctly.

My house has 3 panels — a Main, Subpanel 1 and Subpanel 2. Subpanel 1 is a 100 A sub off main, located adjacent to it. Subpanel 2 is a 40 A sub off main, located on the back of my house.

Current state:

• 2 Vues — one on main, one on subpanel 1
• Subpanel 1 nested under main
• 1 CT on the Main Vue is monitoring Subpanel 2. Subpanel 2 has a Hot Tub and Solar Generation attached.

What do I have to do in this interim situation to get the signage correct for my solar generation? Mark the Subpanel 2 circuit as ‘Solar / Generation’ and leave the CT w/ the load-side pointed towards the load? Not sure when I will get around to running Wi-Fi to the rear of my house where Subpanel 2 is located ; Main and Subpanel 1 are covered just fine.

Something seems wrong right now, because I’m pretty continuously reporting a net power out to grid and right now, it’s night out and it thinks 1.3 kW is coming in.

My end state will be:

• 3 Vues — one at each panel.
• Subpanel 1 / Subpanel 2 will nest directly under Main
• Subpanel 2 is the only that will have a solar generation circuit on it

My questions:

1. What does the Emporia software do different upon configuring a Vue if you indicate it has solar / generation available?
   1. What’s the point of its identification exercise if you can control which CT goes where?
2. What does the Emporia software do if you configure a given circuit as Solar/Generation?
   1. I expect in my end-state, this is not problematic because my solar won’t consume power.
   2. In my current-state, what does it do if you have a load (i.e. subpanel) that swings direction? When hot tub is off, solar will make it to Main. When hot tub is on, it will be a net load on Main.
3. What is the proper configuration of each Vue when all 3 are installed?

[djwakelee]

I believe you will need to get to your final setup of 3 Vue’s for this to work properly.  That is, one on the main panel, and one for each of your two sub panels. Perhaps you can add a WiFi extender to get the 2nd sub panel the necessary signal.

The challenge with your current setup is you have both a load and solar from your 2nd sub panel, and you aren’t monitoring those give / take circuits separately.  By only having one clamp looking at that whole subpanel, there is no way for the system to figure out what is the draw from your hot tub, and what is the generation of the solar.  You might think, ok – no big deal, it will properly register solar generation in the day, and only run the hot tub as a load at night (for example).  That way they never are on at the same time to confuse things.  But because Emporia doesn’t (at present) monitor the direction of power flow, the system will always think the current on that clamp is draw from a load, or generation from solar.  They don’t support bi-directional power flow (among other things).

So yes, the final setup that you want is 3 Vue 2’s – and any circuit clamps for looking at dedicated loads (and solar circuits).  You’ll have one Vue2 measuring the mains, and any circuits you want to look at with your main panel.  Then you need the same thing for each of your sub-panels – with the mains clamps hooked over the incoming feeds to the subpanel, and the circuit clamps connected to what you want to look at in more detail.  In the software, you will nest both subpanels under your main panel.  In your main panel, don’t put any circuit clamps on the lines going to the subpanels – the mains clamps in those subpanels will take care of measuring the draw for the whole subpanel.  And when you put your clamps on the solar circuit, make sure you face them the opposite direction (not that it presently matters), and also that you set that circuit as Solar/Generation in the app.  Or go through the setup process to attempt to relearn the solar automatically.

Hope that helps.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.

[movax]

Thanks for the detailed reply — makes sense to me. My fundamental misunderstanding / misconception was that for a given CT channel on a Vue, it is not bipolar / it is not able to measure current in both directions, whether because of a hardware limitation in how the ADC circuit was implemented, or if it was a solar load. So — my data right now is useless because even if the hot tub is off, and solar on and producing 2-3 kW, that’s going to be tracked as 2-3 kW of load.

I’ve seen conflicting posts on whether to flip the CT or not on a generator load (end up with two negatives cancelling out sort of thing); if you flip the CT *and* mark the load as generation / solar, will it count the direction correctly? Or do you only do one or the other?

[djwakelee]

The mains clamps do measure power direction, so they do have to be set right.  Supposedly the hardware is capable of measuring power direction for the circuit clamps also, but they are aren’t doing this at this time.  Has been a open feature request which they have said to be working on, but this is going on well over a year now.  They seem to be focusing on releasing new devices (like the EV charger), and less-so on existing system improvements.  Still a good energy monitor for the money.

At present it shouldn’t matter which direction your circuit clamps are.  Some people even purposely install them backwards because the wiring is a bit cleaner in the panel.  But it should be setup as below – from everything I understand and have seen documented (should they ever enable power direction measurement)…

1) Mains clamps: Arrow points from grid->panel.

2) Subpanel mains clamps: Arrow points from feeder->subpanel.

3) Circuits clamps for loads: Arrow points from breaker->circuit wiring.

4) Circuit clamps for solar:  Arrow points from solar circuit->solar breaker at panel.

 

[movax]

Got a better antenna for the Vue out back, so installed the third one out back and still having some odd issues…

* I had some very weird behavior where the rear subpanel Vue would record a very large balance amount… which shouldn’t be possible as I have every circuit monitored by a CT. There are 2 2 pole breakers and 1 single-pole, so I installed 5 CTs (in the vain hope that some day Emporia will push a SW update that allows for combining circuits).. Hot Tub L1, Hot Tub L2, Solar L1, Solar L2, Service Receptacle. I confirmed all the CT orientations — the mains K->L pointed to the panel, Hot Tub/Service Receptacles pointed to the loads, and Solar L1/L2 pointed back to the panel.

* So, I power-cycled it and now Solar L2 is missing… how does the Vue determine if a CT is connected or not? I piggy-backed the Vue off the Solar breaker, and now I’m thinking this might lead to it getting confused. Ordering a pair of tandem breakers so I can get the Vue off on its own connection.

* In the initial setup of the Vue, when it asks if I have solar or not, and to toggle it on/off… do I have to re-run this on each Vue? Or just the one that has solar directly attached to it?

[cbdh19]

Sorry to drop in here. I don’t understand how to create a new thread on this forum. The conversation you’re having is above my head, but it is on a topic/question similar to mine: I have an Emporia Vue on what is effectively a subpanel in my condo. The Vue is measuring consumption. I just had solar installed on my condo. The solar installer insisted on doing Enphase’s consumption/production monitoring system, which I don’t like nearly as much as the Emporia system, and would not move my Emporia, set it up so that it would also monitor solar production (or did not understand how to do it?).

How can I set up my current Emporia Vue to measure solar production, not just electricity consumption, with my two separate panels, the main one outside my condo, and the inside one, 50 feet, at least away, inside the condo, which currently has the emporia installed on it?

Outside main panel ==>

[scrambler]

You would first need to know how the two panels are interconnected, to know if you would need to just add CTS on the solar lines, or also move the 200A CTs .

I am also not sure how long you can extend the CT wires, you should ask Emporia that question.

If you can use a 50ft extension you could always install CTs on the Solar lines, making sure to orient them opposite as the Load CTs. But the question above needs clarification to see if you can still get a proper Net metering reading or not

If you cant extend that far, then you would need a separate Vue, and monitor the solar separately from the rest

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