Struggling with my new 16 channel device

[TPH1299]

Greetings from sunny Cyprus. I thought my installation, although 3 phase, would be fairly easy, but I followed the card that came with it which meant I had to turn around all of the 50amp sensors, as breaker does not mean fuse and load does not mean the load you put upon the circuit (IE switching on a kettle). The 200amp clamps were correct. I was not happy with the results, then read on here how I should have put both wires of the 7 ring main circuits, so put them right too.

My electricity system is based upon the British model, three phase with a neutral. I also have a +20 year old Owl meter connected to the same three wires as the new VUE 2. Plus an old plug in meter which says VA on the watt reading. I have the main Multiplier set to 1 and all 16 circuits set to 2.

I am trying to understand the real power Vs reactive power Vs apparent power difference, but am struggling somewhat to get the gist due to the difference in readings, together with the balance, which is all over the place.

If I switch everything off and just on the kettle (the box states 2.2 KW) the old plug in meter reads 1.960, the old Owl meter adds exactly 2.000, as does the total usage,, but the 50 amp sensor adds 2.200. With the kettle on the green balance fluctuates between 16 and 6 %, with it off it’s 135 to 65 % with the total usage around 0.112 w.

So nowhere near zero. I’ve tried various figures in the Multiplier field, but nothing gets near to zero in the Balance field.

Also there is a discrepancy of .100 to.150 between the Owl and Emporium app when both are connected to the same wires. Hence I’m not sure which I should be believing.

I have solar but I am not trying to read the output, I don’t know if this makes a difference to the readings I’m getting. My inverter corresponds to the total usage, as far as I can tell as it only updates every 12 minutes.

Any suggestions on how I can better improve things would be more than welcome.

Best regards to all.

[emporiacs]

Hi,

Please contact Customer Support directly so we may best assist with the specifics of this request.

[TPH1299]

I have made an Amazon review which adds to this thread, hence my posting it here:

My experience with the Emporia Vue 2

I live in a lovely country but like a lot of places nowadays it suffers from world class useless, corrupt, greedy politicians and until Putin’s invasion electricity was pricey but affordable. Once the prices started to climb rapidly, I did my maths again to find that the payback period for solar panels was, at current prices, now reasonable, so I had it installed.

I found it didn’t give me enough information so I had a smart meter fitted. I also had a 20 year old Owl +USB device that has been great at allowing me to see at a glance our total consumption, but never knew how accurate it was, although it wasn’t far away when the kettle was on (the manufacturer won’t tell me the method used, which is a simple engineering question, so I cannot recommend their products). A great visible aid if nothing else. I also have an old socket measuring device that reads Watt VA.

However, it was obvious that the real information I needed was exactly the same as the electricity authority has, straight from the electricity meter. Which, as a consumer, we are entitled to under EU law. So I typed in the details of my electricity meter into a search engine and found they recommend a product called Onemeter to read their meters. After emailing the company, who were brilliant, I got them to send me a device. Which is excellent, especially with the gateway, in giving me my exact position, within 15 minutes, of the KW I will have to pay for with the next bill or how much surplus I have generated.

So that was one side covered nicely, but I still did not know exactly where it’s going, so I went on a search for a product that would help give me that information. The only product that seemed to give this was the Emporia Vue 2 with 16 sensors and most of the reviews were favourable.

It said it would work with my three phase, 3 X 240 volt with a neutral, so despite the horrendous shipping cost, I brought one, from the only outlet in the EU I could find, as bringing in from outside is a right pain nowadays.

I thought it would be a simple installation as I brought it in Europe and assumed my electricity system was based on UK and EU standards, although it probably won’t fit inside my electric panel and some work would be needed to hide the many wires.

The first problem I came across was that some of my circuits, 7, 4 for sockets and 3 for lights, were ring mains, which meant I have 2 wires coming out of the fuses, do I put one or both in the clamp? I went for one and fitted everything according to the instructions, which worked but with readings all over the place.

At this stage I need to mention that my wife, having to put up with the constant cutting off of the power and my energy going into the task, was starting to complain, but then a death in her family left me alone to experiment and ponce about to my heart’s content and try to get everything working as it should. Also, I had to suffer copious amounts of tea as I couldn’t waste all the boiling water whilst I constantly took readings.

Our kettle has 2200w written on the box and the label on the bottom says 220 – 240V – 50Hz 1850 – 2200W. I also have a hair dryer that says 1800W written on it. We have a smart home and therefore have lots of small devices controlling things and everything is electric, heating, cooling, cooking, entertainment, etc, etc.

I changed the direction of the 50A clamps. Then read that others in the UK have put both wires though the clamps, so then made that change as well. Every time trying to change the Multiplier to find what difference it makes.

To cut a long story short and after many visits to the bathroom due to the amount of tea consumed, not to forget the constant readings and experimentation. The best readings are definitely, for my three phase system with neutral, as follows: All clamps, 50A and 200A, the opposite way around to the instructions that came with the device and both wires of the ring mains going through the clamps. All Multipliers set to 2 including the 200A main circuits.

That setup gave me the best believable readings which are close enough and make sense, including the balance. So there I am all sorted, I can read pretty much everything and know exactly where every watt comes and goes, but oh no, it was never going to be as simple as that. And basically it’s all left me very confused as very little corresponds and there seems no way of finding out which unit of measurement or standard is being used to measure anything. And hence which device, if any, is 100% correct and accurate.

Who knew it would be so difficult, thought it flowed like water and was easily measured, but no, it turns out that there are many ways of measuring the KW. Real Power or Apparent Power or Reactive Power or Active Power or something else, seems to be the some of the choices and as for trying to find out which a device is measured by, well I’ve had little success!

The only device I can rely upon 100% is the Onemeter as it reads the raw data directly from the electricity meter and is accurate to the last fifteen minutes, and I have constantly checked it against the meter readings. Nothing seems to correspond, for example yesterday 11/10/23, the Owl reads consumption as 7.0426, the inverter reads 5.36 total usage, the Vue 2 reads 8.237 and the Onemeter reads 3.4 KWH Active Energy. Little wonder I’m confused. However, all that being said, all of the devices are useful in helping me manage our electric usage and production and I wouldn’t like to be without any of them.

To sum up the Emporia Vue 2, I don’t think it’s that accurate, but tech support is aware of my problems and are on the case so things could well change, but it’s certainly close enough to tell the user where their power is being used. Hence I would recommend it, although it can be a difficult fit and you may have to be inventive to hide the 23 wires, but worth the effort for me.

Hope I’ve helped someone else with my experiments and saved them some of the time I have put in so far. Not that it’s over yet!

[Author]

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