Tiered Rates that adjust with time

Emporia Energy Community Product Ideas Tiered Rates that adjust with time

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    • #6164 Report Abuse
      Bill
      Member

      I’m a commercial property owner and manager here in San Diego. Just installed 4 Vues in order to monitor usage between apartments that happen to share one meter. The plan is to use the info to allow the tenants to monitor their own usage and to more accurately bill two different apartments for their actual share of electricity usage.

      A Simple feature that would make this a reality is if the app would allow us to enter different rates based on the time of day.  This would match the current tiered rate system at SDGE which has rates that fluctuate at different times of the day. We have off peak rates, peak rates and super off peak rates.

      If we could achieve this, my tenants would be able to view real-time, accurate energy costs. And it would make our shared billing process completely automated.

      Appreciate your thoughts.

       

      Thanks!

       

       

    • #6168 Report Abuse
      Marty @Emporia
      Emporia Staff

      @Bill, thanks for you business and sharing with us how you are using the Vue’s.    Tiered Rates is a software enhancement that is on our development roadmap, and we planning on having this available to our customer later this year.   Thanks for the feedback!

    • #6201 Report Abuse

      An additional feature that I think goes with this would be to have a different rate depending on how many kwhs are used.  For example, the first 800 kwhs are charged at 0.11 but over 800 kwhs is charged at 0.12 per kwh. My utility changes based on gross usage this way.

    • #6682 Report Abuse

      Yes, +1 . Pacific Gas and Electric in Northern CA also uses a combination of Tiers (3 tiers: baseline allowance, and then higher rate when over that up until 4 times baseline, then an even higher rate) – plus TOU (3 times lots: peak, part-peak, and off-peak rates) plus type of day (2 types: weekday and weekend). It would be really nice to add that this year 🙂

    • #6867 Report Abuse
      blaks1shine
      Member

      This is the reason I bought emporia – and I’m not seeing how to easily see what is consuming power within a time window.

      I’d like to see a pinch/zoom graphic (stacked bar) based on the circuits consuming the most power (grouped per hour)

      For the PG&E example – time windows are 4-9p, or 5-8p, so if we could see the breakdown per hour, that would suffice. An aggregate so you could review this window (time of day) over week or month would be super useful as demands changes with seasons.

      Same interface could be useful to see overnight consumption percentages per circuit for solar applications. This could help dimension storage systems, or optimize consumption.

       

    • #6872 Report Abuse
      jbyrkit
      Member

      +1 for different rates. Duke Energy charges a different rate for the first 1000 kwh.

    • #7097 Report Abuse
      HenryH
      Member

      I can add to this request. My power company is NS Power (owned by Emera Corp.) in Nova Scotia, Canada. Their time-of-day rate schedule is:

      NS Power ToD rates

      H: 19.961 ¢/kWh (high rate)
      M: 15.603 ¢/kWh (medium)
      L: 8.676 ¢/kWh (low rate

      Mar–Nov (Spring/Summer/Fall—9 mo)

      Hour M Tu W Th F Sa Su
      07-23 M M M M M L L
      23-07 L L L L L L L

      Dec–Feb (Winter—3 mo)

      Hour M Tu W Th F Sa Su
      07-12 H H H H H L L
      12-16 M M M M M L L
      16-23 H H H H H L L
      23-07 L L L L L L L

      This will give you one data point for the complexity of supporting time-of-day rates. Unless this is implemented I cannot get accurate billing.

      Thanks for your consideration.

    • #7176 Report Abuse
      solarnerd
      Member

      I would love tiered rates! It would be great for this to also account for peak demand usage fees for solar users. My utility (SRP) charges a peak demand fee based on the highest 30 minute kw usage during weekdays in the month. These peak fees are steep so I would want to be alerted anytime I’m coming close as well (which I think the app can currently do)..

      Example: the most kw used in a 30min period from Mon-Fri in a month is, say, 5.6kw. The peak fee for that would be about $140!

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by solarnerd.
    • #7197 Report Abuse
      2ndLeaf
      Member

      Is there any ETA on when the Tiered Rates will be available?

    • #7231 Report Abuse
      Dom.emshur
      Member

      I would love to have this feature. I am with APS and they have a time of use plan.

    • #7349 Report Abuse
      akballow
      Member

      Any update to this? This seams like a critical request to even be able to use this energy tracker accurately. Right now without this feature the only value that is of use is the current usage. Having historical usage does not mean much in terms of calculating costs because we can only specify one rate.

    • #7351 Report Abuse
      Emporia Support
      Emporia Staff

      Hi @akballow,

      I just checked w/ the development team and this is a feature that is under active development. Very much a high priority item here at Emporia. I would keep a lookout for the Application update to be available early summer for this feature.

    • #7361 Report Abuse

      For anyone interested in doing this now, I’m currently doing this through Home Assistant and a custom integration. In Ontario where I am we have time-of-use rates that vary based on time of day and season. I rent one floor of a house and split the electricity bill 50/50 with the other tenants. I installed an Emporia Vue 2 in our panel, and within Home Assistant add up our circuits vs their circuits, mostly because I’m curious how much usage we each have.

      There is a “utility meter” integration which allows for the switching of rates. It definitely takes a bit of work to set up (you need to buy some kind of mini-computer to run Home Assistant), but I’m able to accurately determine how much of each peak rate I’m using vs the other tenants (and subsequently get annoyed when they use craploads of energy during the most expensive hours… Grrrr).

       

      If anyone is interested, I could post my setup to github somewhere and/or help point you in the right direction.

    • #7362 Report Abuse
      solarnerd
      Member
      • Please, do share! I’ve got a linux server that I would love to setup tiered rate management. This will be super helpful when determining my actual peak consumption when it related to what my tiered rates will be once I get solar installed.
    • #7366 Report Abuse
      Emporia Support
      Emporia Staff

      Hey @efficiencynerd,

      Would definitely love to see the repo for the tools you’re using. I’m currently working on organizing some community based resources to share with everybody. If you come across other tools, be sure to post ’em.

      Emporia Support Team

    • #7371 Report Abuse

      I pushed up my config files to github here: https://github.com/efficiencynerd/home_assistant

       

      Home assistant is a powerful beast for home automation. I’ve been playing with it for about a year, slowly adding more and more things to it. It’s a bit of work to set up but well worth it, and if you’ve got a linux server hanging around I’d assume you’re not afraid to get your hands dirty.

       

      Here are some things to point you in the right direction:

      • Custom Emporia Vue integration, which pulls data into Home Assistant: https://github.com/magico13/ha-emporia-vue
      • The aptly named “Integration” integration – This performs an integral sum calculation. In other words, if you feed this integration Watts, it will spit out a sensor in kWh (of course you have to set it to account for the “kilo” part, and I think by default it’s using hours as units) https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/integration/
      • Utility Meter integration – this is how I set up the tiered rates, you can define as many “tariffs” as you want. You feed the Utility Meter a kWh sensor, either from the Integration integration above or directly from the Emporia Vue data. It then collects data into different named tariffs, resets at whatever interval you want (daily, monthly, etc) at whatever offset you want (3rd day, etc) https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/utility_meter/
        • I’m using the Emporia Vue monthly kWh, which updates every 5 minutes – I found the “Integration” calculations to be a bit less accurate
        • If the Emporia Vue data goes down, the monthly kWh will go to 0 and back, which causes false readings in the utility meter sensors. To get around this, I’m pushing it through a template such that if it reads exactly 0, I set the template value to it’s own “previous reading” (see my configuration.yaml, line 355 for an example)
        • The Utility Meter integration can be set to only count up, which is how I have it – this way when the monthly Emporia reading resets to 0 and starts over, it won’t reset my Utility Meter accumulation
        • For rates at each tariff, I just have some Input Numbers defined through the Home Assistant UI, which I then multiply by each respective peak to determine cost
      • To switch tariffs, check out my automation/energy.yaml file. I’m triggering an automation at every hour the tariff could possibly change, every day (this could of course be done differently), and then checking some conditions to determine what rate to use:
        • If it’s nighttime or a non-workday as defined by Ontario stat holidays and weekends, set to offpeak rate
        • Otherwise, if it’s summer months during 11 am – 5 pm, or winter months and between 7 am – 11 am or 5 pm – 7 pm, set to onpeak rate
        • If neither of the first two conditions are true, set to midpeak rate
      • You can define as many utility meters as you want. I have about 20, collecting data for various things…
      • In my configuration.yaml file, electricity-related stuff goes from line 232 all the way to 831. Wow that’s a lot of code… feel free to steal any or all of it. Some of what I’m doing could have probably been accomplished via the UI, but I’m a software engineer so I haven’t minded learning a new code language.
      • On the main page of my repo are some screenshots of how I’m displaying the data. The display cards were a bit hacky to set up the way I have them but I’m happy with it for now. Tomorrow I may decide to redesign the whole thing, who knows 🙂

       

      Cheers

    • #7372 Report Abuse
      Emporia Support
      Emporia Staff

      Awesome. I’ll take some time to digest, but I love it. Thanks!!! (now I just need to find myself a linux box to leave “hanging around”)

    • #7373 Report Abuse

      Haha – a linux box was in reference to @solarnerd saying he had one. Definitely not the average user I would assume! But Home Assistant is trying to become more user-friendly, even though for now I think it’s mostly still DIY nerds like myself.

       

      In case the Emporia staff/dev team is interested, the most recent update to Home Assistant software added the ability to share usage data for analytics – so as of right now, there are at least 30,000 installations of Home Assistant, and growing fast: https://analytics.home-assistant.io/  Personally I wouldn’t have bought an Emporia Vue if there wasn’t a custom integration that can pull its data into Home Assistant, but it would be awesome if you guys made a more “official” integration for it. Even better if it’s local and not cloud-based 🙂

    • #7383 Report Abuse
      solarnerd
      Member

      Thanks so much for putting together the github page, @efficiencynerd! Looks like we’re both nerds when it comes to this stuff 🙂

      I just spun up a Home Assistant instance and am playing with it for the first time. I’ve added your custom integration easy enough, but trying to figure out what to do after that. Do I need to manually add the 2 other items (Integration and Utility Meter), or are they bundled in with your package? From there, what’s the easiest way to modify the parameters for my utility tiers?

      Thanks again for all your help and hopefully between the 2 of us, we can get some helpful guides put together for everyone else!

    • #7386 Report Abuse

      Great! Just to be clear, the “ha-emporia-vue” custom integration was not created by me – all credit to github user magico13, who wrote that integration (as well as the PyEmVue module it replies on).

       

      Yes, you need to add at least the Utility Meter integration as well as optionally the Integration one – though the Integration one is not strictly necessary for what you want. I would start with just the Utility Meter, which needs to be added directly in your configuration.yaml file.

      How do you have Home Assistant installed? Specifically – do you have the “Supervisor” on the left sidebar? This basically makes the whole thing more self-managed for installing/upgrading/etc. The reason I ask is because from the Supervisor Add-on Store you can install the File Editor addon, which allows you to edit the configuration and other .yaml files. This is how I do most of my editing.

      I’ll try to make a short video tutorial in a day or two showing how I would first suggest setting things up….

    • #7398 Report Abuse
      solarnerd
      Member

      <p style=”text-align: left;”>That would help a ton, thanks! I don’t have supervisor as it’s not compatible with my OrangePi clone, so I’ve got the container version. I’ll do some poking around on how to add that to my yaml file though since it sounds like that’s a step we need to take ourselves.</p>
      After it’s added, how do you go about configuring the tiers? Are they handled in another yaml file, or are they managed on the web interface through an Integration?

      Thanks again, you rock!

    • #7610 Report Abuse

      This weekend I noticed that there is now an option to select your utility and rate plan and use an open source service called openEI.org for rate information.

    • #8135 Report Abuse
      jamesh
      Member

      Is this feature going to be released soon? I see no option for Xcel Energy TOU rates or any ability to manually set rate tiers

    • #8142 Report Abuse
      YK
      Member

      Let me add my volt on this feature request.

    • #8155 Report Abuse
      Peter
      Member

      Great feature, especially that you can just pick the utility and rate you are on.

      Hope we can see use breakdown by rate catagory soon.

      I’m, with Wisconsin Public Service, and have a 3 tier rate: base, off-peak, peak; also week day/ weekend & holiday.

      • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Peter.
      • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Peter.
    • #8169 Report Abuse
      ctrlz
      Member

      +1 for this glaring omission.  I never even thought to check whether dual tariff was supported before buying my Vue 2.  Even the £10 plug-in monitor I replaced with the Vue 2 had it!

      Without it, the displayed costs will never be accurate.

    • #8382 Report Abuse
      filipes
      Member

      I just installed Vue in my house and realized tiered rates are not available. It is such a basic feature that I didn’t even check before buying.

      I see an update from Emporia this would be available by the end of 2020 but today is March 05 2022.

      Emporia, please could you provide us with an update?

      As I might return the item to Amazon and find another solution.

      Thank you

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