Voltage Monitoring

[aiannone]

New Emporia Vue2 user here. Surprised that there seems to be zero voltage monitoring. I’d like to see, and preferably log, the voltage on each leg of my split phase 240V service. The main unit has power leads on each leg (Black & Red), so I would be very surprised if the unit can’t measure voltage. Please add voltage monitoring / recording.

[Kevin @ Emporia]

Hey @aiannone,

This is a common feature request for the Emporia platform. As you noted, we don’t have voltage available as a measurement at the moment but we’ll be adding it in the future. I don’t have a timeline of when that might be available, but we’re in the process of migrating some of the calculations into the cloud (off app), and once that happens that’ll open more doors for showing these values in the app.

[shaun]

I just wanted to register my interest for this feature as well!

[simba]

Also interested.

[jerrybix]

also interested to monitor my utility brownouts

[HansF]

also interested.

[YK]

Hi I just want to cast one vote on this request – add voltage monitoring. Further more to use this voltage value as a factor to compute kWh instead of a default value. Thanks

[Mark]

Voltage monitoring is a huge need.  I’m running a Sense at the same time and the Sense helped me identify an issue with the transformer and soon after the power company confirmed and fixed the issue.  I had one leg rock solid 120v at all times and the other bouncing from 124v to 111v.  Emporia’s advantage is the dedicated branch sensors, but Sense’s software and user experience is still more mature.  Hopefully the Emporia software adds features and matures before Sense realizes they too need a device with multiple dedicated branch monitoring.

[YK]

Mark,

which parameters we care? Was it instantaneous min, max, RMS or 3 seconds averaged.

[Mark]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>All I was informed of was the split phases were monitored by the power company as being more than 5%, or 6v, apart multiple times.  Since I assume it was based on 120v as baseline, it would be RMS.  I am not aware of what measure of time the power company used.</p>
On the Sense voltage plots, one leg was a perfect line of 120, the other was all all over the place.  It wasn’t a full swing of 124 to 111v quickly, it would hover at 116, then the next hour back to 121 ect.

[YK]

This kind of fluctuations worth your utility company’s attention. Just open an investigation ticket with them. This could be aged wire or junction, near your home or main watt meter.

[Mark]

They already took care of it.  They responded pretty quick too.  Neighborhood is only 11 years old and everything is underground.

[eunbyoll]

Yes! I want it.

And plus voltage monitor on SMART PLUG!

then user can know voltage drop in between service panel -> receptacle.

This kind of feature really useful if someone living in old house.

I don’t have idea how much heats are unexpectedly consumed in inner wall wire.

Cheers!

[dekes1]

Yes, please add voltage to the data in the app!  The ability to track voltage helps determine utility power quality and take action to prevent appliance damage.

[mooky]

Voltage monitoring, and if the sample-rate allows, monitoring electrical noise/spikes

[Mark]

I wouldn’t count on any enhancements to the technical aspects of the monitoring software interface such as voltage anytime soon.  It appears the company is dedicating its resources to emerging technologies such as electric car charging and home battery systems.  I love the dedicated branch monitoring, but if Sense releases a product that is capable of having more than two dedicated circuit monitoring to go along with their AI learning, they will cover the one market advantage the Vue 2 has on them.  After using both Sense and Emporia side by side for over 18 months, I love the dedicated monitoring much more than the novelty AI of Sense; however, Sense has voltage monitoring, power quality monitoring, stalled motor detection and a much, higher sampling rate and a much more mature software interface.

[kurt@breischaft.com]

Looking for this feature as well. Voltage please!

[aiannone]

@Emporia Team, it would be great to get an update on this. Many of us users feel a bit abandoned and worry about the future viability of the platform / devices. Can we get an update on the status of this feature request as well as what the future looks like for us Vue users?

[devdevil85]

I would like to know when voltage drops occur and to what extent

[bcr]

Brand new emporia user here testing a couple of systems.
I have a 3 phase set up and noticed the “perceived” usage jump around as I added sensors to each phase. It makes me wonder how accurate any of this is. I also want to see what it is perceiving the voltage of each phase to be too as that makes a big difference.

I have the device on a three phase breaker so it can read voltage on each phase.. what is the point of that if we cannot see the actual data?? The app says it is *assuming* a 120V set up, but on 3 phase, the actual voltage is 240-ish volts. Does the device account for that? Does it account for voltage variations over the day. I know our power varies from 108 volts to 121 volts on a normal outlet on any given day.

I would like to see voltage variation graphs over time. Surely this is only a minor software update to show end users this information.
EMPORIA… PLEASE PLEASE ADD THIS!! Clearly your customers want it (add as “advanced” mode if need be that shows as much detail as possible)

[oldmcg]

“Me too”.

I need to see voltage drop from my meter when I’m pulling near full 200A breaker limit to see how much power (heat) I’m losing to line losses.

Thx.

[MooseBoys]

I have the 16-sensor model in my cart and was about to click Buy, but after seeing that the device lacks voltage monitoring I can’t buy it since that’s one of my main use cases. I’ll be looking for alternatives, but if voltage monitoring is added I’d buy this immediately.

[Qurius]

Just purchased Vue and mistakenly assumed it had voltage monitoring (my bad). I have it installed in an RV and voltage drop monitoring is critical so I’m really disappointed especially seeing how old this thread is and it’s still not implemented.

[wshea]

I’d love to see voltage monitoring as well. This turns the Vue Gen 2 into a great troubleshooting tool. I look forward to this addition. Just got my Vue Gen 2 and I love it by the way!

[derson]

I try to search, but it is depressing going a single page back to find 2 year old requests like voltage monitoring that still have not been implemented.

[aiannone]

As the original poster here, I couldn’t agree more with your sentiments – been waiting 2 years and no updates 🙁 .

[bcr]

I think it is ludicrous that this very simple modification has yet to be in effect.

Better still, @Emporia, make a API or allow the system to be open enough so users can create their own scripts or calls to pull data. That way you won’t have to do anything else.

Highly frustrating this is being ignored when it is clear that people NEED this option!

[electroman00]

“I think it is ludicrous that this very simple modification has yet to be in effect.”

First and foremost voltage reading is not a simple modification of Software/Hardware of the Gen 2 Vue Energy Monitor.

In fact it will require a complete hardware re-design and listed certification (very expensive) for starters !!

Accurate Voltage measurement can’t be acquired via current sensors which means wires need to be connected directly to each breaker.

Those wires would connect to ADC (Analog to Digital Converters) that currently do not exist within the Gen 2.

Currently the Gen 2 Vue does NOT make any direct connection to the electrical system to enable voltage measurements.

IOW the Gen 2 Vue will never be able to measure voltage via current sensors.

You all can argue with me all you want…Keep in mind…I have Ohms law on my side and you don’t!

volts = amps x ohms

or

V = A x Ω

Gen 2 only measures A and you need Ω to calculate V via ohms law.

So software modification is impossible!

aka IMPOSSIBLE…

No can do…

So that makes the quoted statement at the top “ludicrous ”

The REALITY is “It is what it is”!

Wango Tango

[electroman00]

Quote: “Better still, @Emporia, make a API or allow the system to be open enough so users can create their own scripts or calls to pull data. That way you won’t have to do anything else. Highly frustrating this is being ignored when it is clear that people NEED this option!”

 

Have you considered the option of those folk…that your statements are worthy of “being ignored” by those that are knowledgeable aka Engineers!

Even if they gave you access to an API and you knew how to use it, how could you measure Voltage if the required hardware doesn’t exist in the Gen 2 ??

Ding…Ding…Ding…

I understand you are “Highly frustrating”…but they do have medications for that!!

Brain Bleach

lol

 

 

[oldmcg]

We don’t need voltage at each circuit/breaker — they won’t vary much anyway within same panel. Voltage drop per circuit is at the other end of each circuit — nothing you can do to monitor that from the panel anyway.  I only care about voltage drop/fluctuation in my panel from the utility dependent on my total load.   There is already voltage inputs available to the unit via the 4-wire connector including neutral and both hot legs (for the whole panel), so the hardware is already there.

The software is a different story.  They currently only upload and store “watts” per circuit, not separately volts, amps, and power factor.  So even for an API to draw from their current cloud datastore wouldn’t get us voltage.  And if they did change their entire datastore to include V/A/PF per circuit, it would not include historical data for those.  So it’s not a straightforward and simple software change, but I think it is certainly possible using current hardware.

 

[electroman00]

>>>>”I only care about voltage drop/fluctuation in my panel from the utility dependent on my total load.”

Typically we don’t worry about voltage drop on wires less then 100ft as the wire gage is selected for the size breaker.

For lengths greater then 100ft we load calc the need to up size that feeder wire.

All of the feeder Voltage drops I’ve ever encountered were found at termination points.

They are simple to diagnose, probes of meter one on wire and one on terminal/connector… 1-2 volts max. under existing load (digital meter w/hold)

Long term monitoring of voltage drop isn’t necessary, if you have a MAINS voltage drop issue you need to find it and fix it asap!

Not sure if you have ever seen a Elec Meter glow Orange, a clear indication there is a voltage drop!

Warning: If you ever see one glowing orange, cut off power first then open it up…otherwise you will oxidize the arc and it WILL blow up in your face.

>>>”There is already voltage inputs available to the unit via the 4-wire connector including neutral and both hot legs (for the whole panel), so the hardware is already there.”

As far as I know EMPORIA doesn’t have an API nor open source which means using 4-wire connector is not an option (not likely ever in the future).

Also the ADC (electronics) probably isn’t setup to resolve low level voltages needed for voltage drop calc’s.

>>>>”They currently only upload and store “watts” per circuit, not separately volts, amps, and power factor.  So even for an API to draw from their current cloud datastore wouldn’t get us voltage.”

Well they need V to calculate  V/A/PF…they only derive V from the Mains power buss via the Red and Blue wires

BTW The instructions show to connect those wires (red,blue) to a breaker wires using wire nuts…that methodology is called a NEC Code Violation!

Distribution Panels are not Junction Boxes!

>>>>” And if they did change their entire datastore to include V/A/PF per circuit, it would not include historical data for those.”

Gen2 Hardware doesn’t acquire V per circuit, so you can’t store data that doesn’t exist!

>>>>”  So it’s not a straightforward and simple software change, but I think it is certainly possible using current hardware.”

Once again NOT possible using current hardware.

You could develop your own hardware and software to get it done. i.e. using a MCU and a 4 to 16 line switch… MCP23016-I/SP

Be aware…that may require medication that you’re currently not taking! lol

Also since Voltage measurement per circuit requires a wire connected to each circuit we are back to …that methodology is called a NEC Code Violation and the NEC also states “All products and materials shall be listed!

To sum it up…EMPORIA is not going to mod the Gen2  for anything in this thread…

#1 hardware won’t support Voltage measurements per circuit

#2 the device has already been listed (UL) and others.

IOW any modification to the listed (tested hardware) requires a NEW Listing at a cost greater the $30,000+++.

hth

 

[bcr]

I just need overall voltage monitoring coming in to the building, not per circuit.  The current hardware has to do that anyway to measure power consumption.

An API would give the user community a way to make tools for each other without any further cost to Emporia.

 

I fail to see why any user of these devices wouldn’t want extra flexibility, but at least don’t urinate on other  people that may want it.

[electroman00]

I’m just stating facts…sorry if you don’t like the reality of those facts… I won’t urinate on you further…BYE !

 

[Mervstar]

@electroman00, your statement of “Currently the Gen 2 Vue does NOT make any direct connection to the electrical system to enable voltage measurements.” is categorically and definitively false.

The Vue2 device literally has a physical connection to leg A, leg B, Neutral, and Ground (this is what the 4-wire connector connects to).  So, the “direct connection to the electrical system” needed in order to provide voltage monitoring definitely exists.  If what you’re saying is that the internal wiring within the Vue2 device doesn’t connect these 4 leads to an input or sensor that can read analog voltages, then fair enough, voltage tracking is impossible due to hardware limitations.

Unless you either work for Emporia or have taken a Vue2 device apart and reverse engineered it yourself, you’re probably not in a position to declare that the hardware renders this feature impossible.

I for one, hope that these 4 leads are wired to input pins on the microcontroller that happen to have the capability to read analog voltages (ADC capability). If this is the case, then it really is just a matter of some programming on Emporia’s part and pushing out a firmware update to enable the ADC feature of these pins and allow the Vue2 to perform voltage sensing.

[bcr]

Absolutely agree! There is definitely a voltage connection or it wouldn’t be able to calculate actual power consumption.

The fact that Emporia has basically given up on new features is highly frustrating. If they just made an API and let users make their own features would end a lot of complaints and issues.

[Bobby Cannon]

Disappointed that we cannot read voltage. I’ll have to go find another solution.

[emporiacs]

Hi Bobby,

We are working on displaying Volts, We hope to have it live in the following few app updates, but no solid timeline as of now.

Thanks.

[BigIron]

I have been using an Aeotec Home Energy Monitor (ZWAVE) on my mains (no individual circuits) for 2 or 3 years with a Hubitat hub. It reports voltage, as well as KWH and amps. When I noticed the Emporia Energy Vue didn’t report voltage, I just left the Aeotec monitor in place for that purpose.

I really like the Vue. It reports a lot more helpful usage data than my Aeotec. I installed the Emporia Vue on the 8 circuits that go to my major appliances. We had 2 Mitsubishi mini-splits installed the week before, and that’s mainly why I felt I needed the Emporia Vue monitor.

It doesn’t concern me that Emporia doesn’t provide an API for users. I can’t imagine what other data I would need that’s not included in their cloud service, especially since I can download my data. I do use an API with the Hubitat that is connected to my Aeotec, but it takes a lot of time and coding effort.

I would rather Emporia focus on their current product and cloud service, instead of using resources to develop an API that only a few would use.

 

[lsr]

For those skeptical, you can see the high-voltage part of the PCB is lacking any connections, aside from power to the digital-sensing part of the PCB
source: FCC Filings

[Phase]

As the Netherland grid voltage varying by the influence of PV energy input, voltage levels are adjusted to the grid voltage stability by the powerlines company and therefor automatic limit the PV inverters. To be able to have a good view on this adjustment behaviour, it now cannot be logged by the Emporia unit. So please add this Voltage parameter Emporia!  Below a snapshot of my Victron inverter.

[emporiacs]

We are aware of that and the next generation of our energy monitors will display voltage.

[Milo]

@lsr : thank you for sharing. If there is no voltage monitoring, how power is calculated?

[VA Sunflower]

Was going to post in the support forum, but I can’t so I will post my question here.

When I select “Voltage” as the unit of measurement, the results don’t make sense (and I don’t mean with respect to volts not being a unit of energy/power).

I have two Vue 2 units, installed in separate panels. Each panel is fed directly from the meter. Each panel gets phase A and phase B.

Each panel’s phase A should be the same (e.g. 124 VAC), and each panel’s phase B should be the same (e.g. 122 VAC).

But instead (see screenshot), I have one voltage in one panel and another voltage in the other panel. Total Usage_A should be 124 and Total Usage_B should be 122, and all the loads should be 122 or 124, but they are all the same.

I checked that each Vue is connected to adjacent breakers via the black & red wires. Is that where the voltage measurement originates? If not, where is it sensing voltage?

 

[waterboyz]

This “Voltage” thread was started 07/2021.

That tells you the urgency by Emporia.

As posted by Isr (10/02/2023) with the circuit board pics, we would have to buy new hardware to get “Voltage” it appears.

======

Hey VA Sunflower…

You asked

I want to post in the Hardware & Installation forum, but instead of seeing the comment posting box (like I am typing in now), I just get fields to enter my User ID & password. If I enter them, it just takes me back to the main “Emporia Energy Community” page. And if I click back to Hardware & installation, I still get the User ID & password fields.

I see “The forum ‘Support Center’ is closed to new topics and replies.” message, so has it been shut down?

 

Yep, I have emailed Emporia directly many times over the years and never got a reply about the “LOGIN ISSUE.”

And… the “Support Chat Popup” is always OFFLINE.

[emporiacs]

Hi,

We’ve noted your feedback to the team.

Starting today, the Emporia App can display voltage as a unit of measurement. Please note that for the Emporia Gen 2 Vue Energy Monitor the voltage displayed is an average.

We’ve updated our Units of Measurement article to reflect this update: https://help.emporiaenergy.com/hc/en-us/articles/9336362559127-Units-of-Measurement

[electroman00]

“Currently the Gen 2 Vue does NOT make any direct connection to the electrical system”

Does make a connection to the mains only…not to breakers which would measure the same as the mains unless there is  connection issue at the breaker to buss bar connection aka resistance.

[Author]

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