120/208 Wye installation questions

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    • April 24, 2021 at 1:13 pm #7347 Report Abuse
      ChasNH
      Member

      In the US, many large condo and apartment complexes use two leg 120/208 wye instead of 120/240. In that context, what is the best way to measure 2 pole circuits? When using one clamp, what should the multiplier be?

    • April 26, 2021 at 4:36 pm #7353 Report Abuse
      Emporia Support
      Emporia Staff

      Hi @charlieseabird7-com,

      We currently don’t support 120/208 wye installations for the Gen 2 Vue.

    • April 28, 2021 at 3:00 am #7378 Report Abuse
      waterboyz
      Member

      ChasNH

      I sorta understand your question but also I’m confused.

      Are you trying to use the Emporia on the commercial side of the incoming utility power?  Or you asking about the setup in the condo itself?  Some times there are misunderstandings of electricity terminology.

      • This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by waterboyz.
    • April 28, 2021 at 1:14 pm #7384 Report Abuse
      ChasNH
      Member

      The Condo unit electric service is  two leg 120/208 wye. Emporia Support already said it is not supported.

    • April 28, 2021 at 1:24 pm #7385 Report Abuse
      ChasNH
      Member

      Emporia Support: Since there are hundreds of thousands of apartment/condo units supplied by this unsupported configuration, it probably is a good ideas to tell people in advance with your documentation.

      Since the coils measure amperes, is it a correct assumption that the ampere reading for each coil is correct?

      Can the multiplier for the mains be changed so that the correct wattage shows?

      Is the wattage reading for each single coil based on 120 Volts with the multiplier set at 1? (The voltage value at each coil on the mains should be measuring the nominal single phase voltage.)

       

       

    • April 28, 2021 at 4:46 pm #7389 Report Abuse
      Emporia Support
      Emporia Staff

      @charlieseabird7-com, you are right about better documentation around supported systems (vs not). I’ve passed on this feedback to the team for better clarification around this issue and we’ll make sure that Delta and Wye systems are clearly specified as being unsupported.

      The wye issue specifically (surrounding ampere/watt readings) can’t be solved with software or App settings. There are fundamental differences that the current hardware in the Vue device cannot overcome to display these measurements correctly.

      We’ll be releasing an update to the App in the future that will allow for a change of voltage to accurately reflect in ampere readings (as now it only considers 120v when calculating amps).

       

       

    • April 28, 2021 at 6:30 pm #7393 Report Abuse
      scrambler
      Member

      @emporiainfo

      You last statement

      “(as now it only considers 120v when calculating amps)”

      Is confusing me.

      There has been many talks about what the Gen2 actually measures, and I had understood from what Emporia reported, that it measures Actual voltage, Amps and Power factor to calculate accurate Power.

      Are you now saying that this is not the case??

      Can you be very specific about what is being measured and what is eventually being Assumed?

      Thanks

       

      • This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by scrambler.
    • April 29, 2021 at 6:56 pm #7399 Report Abuse
      ChasNH
      Member

      @scrambler

      Since you have not yet received an answer I may be able to help (by guessing):

      “(as now it only considers 120v when calculating amps)”

      This does not make sense as it is expressed. It may mean ” it only considers 120v when calculating a WATTS”.

      For those who don’t get it:  The sense coils (clamps) measure only amperes. The voltage output of the coil is directly proportional to the ampere load on the circuit. The voltage applied to the load is not needed. However, the most useful unit of measurement is watts. Watts must be calculated using the amps measured by the coil, along with the voltage applied to the load and the Power Factor. For home use, the Power Factor is assumed to be 1  because home electric meters do not consider it.

    • April 29, 2021 at 8:23 pm #7402 Report Abuse
      scrambler
      Member

      Thanks, but this is why I am asking @emporiainfo to clarify things.

      They very specifically said on other posts that unlike Gen 1 that used 120Volt for calculations, the Gen2 used true Amps, True Volts AND power factor to calculate the Watts. They even said that it is possible they will include this data in the data download at some point in the future.

      This is why their last remark is confusing as it somewhat implies some of the data I mention are still assumptions…

    • April 29, 2021 at 11:22 pm #7406 Report Abuse
      Marty @Emporia
      Emporia Staff

      Hello @Chasnh, We apologize for any confusion that our replies might of caused you.   to clear things up….

      The Gen 2 Vue accurately measures voltage, phase, and current to calculate power.  The in-app energy use is calculated as [real power]/120V. Therefore, when calculating energy usage, we do not account for 240V loads.  This causes an overstatement in the Amps on the mains as well as the Balance calculation.

      The Emporia development team is working to address this issue as soon as we can.

       

    • February 8, 2023 at 12:55 am #9352 Report Abuse
      Alenux
      Member

      I’m also in a condo and just purchased one of these (unfortunately missed the disclaimer). My understanding is that if you live in a condo, you almost certainly use delta or wye correct? And I assume to check that, you can measure the voltage between adjacent breakers and it should be 208 V.

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