[djwakelee]

I believe you will need to get to your final setup of 3 Vue’s for this to work properly.  That is, one on the main panel, and one for each of your two sub panels. Perhaps you can add a WiFi extender to get the 2nd sub panel the necessary signal.

The challenge with your current setup is you have both a load and solar from your 2nd sub panel, and you aren’t monitoring those give / take circuits separately.  By only having one clamp looking at that whole subpanel, there is no way for the system to figure out what is the draw from your hot tub, and what is the generation of the solar.  You might think, ok – no big deal, it will properly register solar generation in the day, and only run the hot tub as a load at night (for example).  That way they never are on at the same time to confuse things.  But because Emporia doesn’t (at present) monitor the direction of power flow, the system will always think the current on that clamp is draw from a load, or generation from solar.  They don’t support bi-directional power flow (among other things).

So yes, the final setup that you want is 3 Vue 2’s – and any circuit clamps for looking at dedicated loads (and solar circuits).  You’ll have one Vue2 measuring the mains, and any circuits you want to look at with your main panel.  Then you need the same thing for each of your sub-panels – with the mains clamps hooked over the incoming feeds to the subpanel, and the circuit clamps connected to what you want to look at in more detail.  In the software, you will nest both subpanels under your main panel.  In your main panel, don’t put any circuit clamps on the lines going to the subpanels – the mains clamps in those subpanels will take care of measuring the draw for the whole subpanel.  And when you put your clamps on the solar circuit, make sure you face them the opposite direction (not that it presently matters), and also that you set that circuit as Solar/Generation in the app.  Or go through the setup process to attempt to relearn the solar automatically.

Hope that helps.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by djwakelee.

[djwakelee]

I believe I can explain both things you are seeing, and I see this here in the US also.

This is pretty typical for circuits that have very light loading, less than 10W.  With my setup of 2 Vue 2’s and 32 total monitored circuits, when the load on a circuit is less than like 5W, the software blanks it out to zero.  When it is above that (like 5-8W), it seems to alternate between showing the power and zero.  At about 10W, it is stable.  Sounds like you see about the same thing.

Emporia appears to be trying to blank out the noise which is present within the system.  If this were to be shown, it would appear as false power readings on the lightly loaded circuits.  But conversely, doing this blanking results in inaccuracy (missed circuit power) at lower power with real loads.  It says somewhere in one of the FAQ’s or in an old post that they do indeed do this, and a bit differently Vue 1 vs. Vue 2.

The balance is comparing the mains draw vs. the sum of the circuit clamps. But because some of those circuit clamps could actually have some small power consumption (say a single 5V 1A AC/DC adapter) and that isn’t shown on the circuit because it is forced to be zero – and the balance looks a bit higher than you’d expect.  In reality, there is power consumption on some of your circuits which are falsely showing ‘zero’, and that is why things seem a bit odd.

 

 

 

 

[djwakelee]

Yes.  You could get two Vue 2’s without the circuit clamps.  You then tell the software that the garage Vue 2 is nested under the house Vue 2.  Then everything works and you’ll have a total figure, the garage figure, and a balance figure for everything else.  The balance number will be your house-only usage.

[djwakelee]

Interesting idea and use of clamps, but the software people didn’t plan for this hookup method.  If you did what you describe, none of the math in the app would sum up correctly.  The software is designed such that …

1) The mains clamps are expected measure the total consumption.

2) The circuit clamps show the power on each monitored circuit (a portion of the total power).

3) A balance figure is calculated that details any difference (to account for un-monitored circuits).

Hooked up as you describe, under light load in your garage the software would think you have an unmonitored power source (say solar generation) since the mains value (really your garage) would be less than all your 16 circuits.  Your total consumption for the property would show be much lower than actual, and would show up as a green balance figure (indicating false on site power production).  Conversely, if your garage was drawing a lot of power (say charging an EV), it won’t think there is extra power from somewhere, but again the total consumption figure will be way low – and only indicate your garage power draw – ignoring the 16 circuit draws in the math.

If you don’t care about looking at or plotting the ‘total power’, your mains clamps on your garage circuit will always show that consumption correctly.  Understand it would be improperly listed as your mains consumption for your property – not a sub item for ‘Garage’.  Your 16 circuit clamps would show the correct power.  Just all the totals would be wrong (and balance figure), and what is referred to as Mains power would be your garage circuit.

The correct thing to do in your case is to have a 2nd Vue 2 for the garage subpanel, and any circuit clamps you wanted to monitor those.  The software will allow you to nest the subpanel Vue 2 underneath the main panel Vue 2, and all the math then works correctly.  That’s the only multiple Vue 2 scenario that works correctly – those of us with more than 16 circuits in a single panel have been waiting for a solution since the product launch.

[djwakelee]

That’s a bummer about the XC90 Recharge and no scheduled charging in the US.  I’m sure it is a nice car overall.  Though I have heard things in general about the software on the Volvo / Polestar EV’s not being quite fully baked (Alex on Autos, etc).  Hopefully they will add that soon – didn’t know any modern EV’s lacked that capability natively.

You mention having a Model 3 also.  Not sure if you know, but Tesla just added a charging history for the last 30 days into their app.  That is quite nice – but I wish it wasn’t only limited to the last 30 days.

[djwakelee]

Although many EVSE’s support control of scheduling the charging time, I’ve found that this is typically better handled by the car ecosystem.  Two examples…

1) Cadillac ELR (similar to Chevy volt).  Setup scheduled charging via the car infotainment system.  The GM phone app stinks, but if you unplug and re-plug the charge cord – it overrides the schedule and charges immediately.

2) Tesla Model 3 (or any Tesla).  Setup scheduled charging via the car infotainment system.  The Tesla phone app is wonderful and allows you to do just about anything remote.  There is a ‘start charging’ button on the main screen – should you need to override the schedule at any time.  And there exists an API (unsupported and undocumented, but works well).

Just my personal experience.  There are all these ‘Smart’ EVSE’s trying to get involved with on/off charging times, but I’ve found those features to be not needed in the EVSE.  I do like the ability of the EVSE to keep track of power consumption and energy usage – just not scheduling the charging.

 

[djwakelee]

Yes, you’d have to definitely check that a given device can support 240V, before swapping it to a 240V line cord.

You don’t need to run 12/3 wiring for 15/20A 240V – can use 12/2.  The black is hot 1, the white is hot 2, and the ground is still ground.  If it is a dedicated circuit, you can switch it at both ends (outlets and breaker) without changing the wiring – still using 12/2.  If the circuit goes to other outlets, then they’d all need to switch to 240V – or make new runs for new outlets.  But you still only need to use 12/2.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 8 months ago by djwakelee.

[djwakelee]

Good info about the historical data being impacted by the multiplier change.

The intent of your 120V to 240V input voltage change raises an interesting idea in general that I had never thought of.  At this stage, most home electronics work over a wide voltage range,  supporting either 240V / 120V (and 50Hz or 60Hz) like your PC power supply.  It seems that if we installed 240V outlets at these higher consuming devices (say TV’s, game consoles, performance PC’s), that would yield similar efficiency gain – and energy savings.  Perhaps of a similar order (10-20%).  Maybe not worth the hassle of changing outlets, rewiring, and dual pole breakers (given US split phase electrical system).  That is, except for heavy load 120/240V electronics – like your mining rig you mention.  But I suppose it could be done for most electronics, for people who are really looking for the most efficient electrical usage.

[djwakelee]

All PC power supplies should have a power factor corrector circuit, which means the power factor should be close to 1.0.  Given that, power is then just easily calculated to be Volts x Amps.  If you say your supply was drawing 10A at 120V, that is 1.2kW – not 2.5kW.  For your 240V conversion drawing 4.19A, that is indeed 1kW.  So you saw an efficiency improvement of 1.2kW (at 120V) to 1.0kW (at 240) – which makes sense.

 

[djwakelee]

First, a correction.  When you have solar, the ‘Net Usage’ value is what the mains clamps are measuring (assuming they are upstream of both the the solar fee and loads).  The Total Usage is then a calculation, and the balance is what is not accounted for with individual circuit clamps.

You have something weird going on, since your balance is green – showing unaccounted for power production.  Normally the balance should be blue – showing the power your un-monitored circuits are consuming.  Also odd is your solar readings seem low – not sure what time of day where you are (and here I have snow on my panels).  But it is as if you don’t have the solar 1 and solar 2 set to the correct 1-16 ports on the Vue 2.  Maybe double check that your clamps go to the ports you think they are?  Or possibly you have another solar system that is contributing, but un-monitored?

You also have another variable in the mix with 2 Vues 2.  I’m not clear how you have these physically setup with both the mains and device clamps.  Not sure if that is a factor in this or not.

[djwakelee]

The two solar values are because Emporia doesn’t group the two 120V phases into one.  Solar should always be balanced, so yes you could use one clamp and multiply (like AC compressors, etc), but then the Amps view is incorrect.  Hopefully Emporia will implement proper grouping of circuits to address this (as well as better support for 240V loads in general) – a feature that is always stated to be coming next quarter – every quarter.

The total usage is the value read from the mains clamps.  The net usage is a calculation, which doesn’t look right from your screen shot, but I suspect you have other loads (and the balance figure) off the bottom of the screen.  If you can post a photo of your clamps, as well as screens which show all your loads (and balance), I imagine we can figure out what is going on.

You mentioned that that you added solar after your main install was running.  You may need to redo the setup process, if you didn’t do that when you added the solar clamps.

 

 

 

[djwakelee]

No you cannot use the 200A mains clamps for the 1-16 device circuits.  But contact Emporia before you place your order.   They can likely substitute the thinner mains sensors you want to use (for a small price) – so you don’t have extras of the standard ones with no use.

[djwakelee]

Send Emporia a chat.  They haven’t replied on this forum in months (reason unknown), but are very responsive and helpful on chat.  I had two damaged CT’s with my 2nd Vue 2 I purchased, and they sent replacements no problem.

[djwakelee]

Yes, you can visually expand and collapse the main and nested panels (and circuits) within the software.

[djwakelee]

I believe the easiest thing is to leave your present indoor setup unchanged, and use a 2nd Vue2 in the outdoor panel.  Install the 200A clamps on the mains.  If you want to measure your individual garage circuits, use additional circuit clamps for those.  Then in the software, set the garage panel as your main panel, and nest the inside house panel underneath the main/garage panel (since it is a subpanel).  All the math should work properly in this configuration.

The way you are setup with a whole house transfer switch, the way to monitor utility only power would be to put the 200A mains clamps in the transfer switch enclosure on the mains coming from the utility.  Basically before the transfer switch, not after it.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by djwakelee.

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