[OneMan]

(Replying to this thread because it has been discussing the sensing of bidirectional current flow in branch circuits.)

Bidirectional sensing on 50A current sensors (branch circuits)  is live and working!!

Big shout out to Shawn (the Big Boss) for supporting this improvement and making the Vue of even more value.

I updated my Emporia Energy app from the app store, and then from the hamburger/more menu, selected “Manage Devices”, selected the Vue 2, selected the circuit, then I saw new buttons for Unidirectional and Bidirectional.  Celebration!

When I tried to save the changes to the circuit setup, the app asked if the circuit was Generating or Consuming, I guess to catch if the sensor was installed backwards. The app then said something like, “The device is updating, try again in one minute.”  I happened to be standing by the breaker panel and heard the Vue beep in about a minute, so I tried again and Voila!

I have three solar inverters and one is a hybrid (does grid inject and also has a battery and can power a backup loads panel without grid input) so the flow can be both directions depending on the battery state of charge, the amount of solar input coming in, the amount of consumption in the backup loads panel, and also the internal consumption of this hybrid inverter at night.  So before this update, the circuit type being Solar/Generation, no matter what direction the current was flowing, it reported all as negative flow (back to the grid).   Now, it displays the flow accurately and I assume the measurements over time will now be accurate too.

I expected the order of my three inverters to be either be orderred by kW or by name (Inv1, Inv2, Inv3) but they were not either, so I tried the custom ordering feature of just these 3 circuits, but it seems to have affected the order of the rest of the circuits which is not good, so still working with support on that aspect.

[OneMan]

(Replying to this thread because it has been discussing the sensing of bidirectional current flow in branch circuits.)

Bidirectional sensing on 50A current sensors (branch circuits)  is live and working!!

Big shout out to Shawn (the Big Boss) for supporting this improvement and making the Vue of even more value.

I updated my Emporia Energy app from the app store, and then from the hamburger/more menu, selected “Manage Devices”, selected the Vue 2, selected the circuit, then I saw new buttons for Unidirectional and Bidirectional.  Celebration!

When I tried to save the changes to the circuit setup, the app asked if the circuit was Generating or Consuming, I guess to catch if the sensor was installed backwards. The app then said something like, “The device is updating, try again in one minute.”  I happened to be standing by the breaker panel and heard the Vue beep in about a minute, so I tried again and Voila!

I have three solar inverters and one is a hybrid (does grid inject and also has a battery and can power a backup loads panel) so the flow can be both directions depending on the battery state of charge, the amount of solar input coming in, the amount of consumption in the backup loads panel, and also the internal consumption of this hybrid inverter at night.  So before this update, the circuit type being Solar/Generation, no matter what direction the current was flowing, it reported both as negative flow (back to the grid).   Now, it displays the flow accurately and I assume the measurements over time will now be accurate too.

I expected the order of my three inverters to be either be orderred by kW or by name (Inv1, Inv2, Inv3) but they were not either, so I tried the custom ordering feature of just these 3 circuits, but it seems to have affected the order of the rest of the circuits which is not good, so still working with support on that aspect.

[OneMan]

(Replying to this thread because it has been discussing bidirectional current flow.)

Bidirectional sensing on 50A current sensors (branch circuits)  is live and working!!

Big shout out to Shawn (the Big Boss) for supporting this improvement and making the Vue of even more value.

I updated my Emporia Energy app from the app store, and then from the hamburger/more menu, selected “Manage Devices”, selected the Vue 2, selected the circuit, then I saw new buttons for Unidirectional and Bidirectional.  Ce;lebration!

When I tried to save the changes to the circuit setup, the app then said something like, “The device is updating, try again in one minute.”  I happened to be standing by the breaker panel and heard the Vue beep in about a minute, so I tried again and Voila!

I have three solar inverters and one is a hybrid (does grid inject and also has a battery and can power a backup loads panel) so the flow can be both directions depending on the battery state of charge, the amount of solar input coming in, the amount of consumption in the backup loads panel, and also the internal consumption of this hybrid inverter at night.  So before this update, the circuit type being Solar/Generation, no matter what direction the current was flowing, it reported both as negative flow (back to the grid).   Now, it displays the flow accurately and I assume the measurements over time will now be accurate too.

I expected the order of my three inverters to be either be orderred by kW or by name (Inv1, Inv2, Inv3) but they were not either, so I tried the custom ordering feature of just these 3 circuits, but it seems to have affected the order of the rest of the circuits which is not good, so still working with support on that aspect.

[OneMan]

Bidirectional sensing on 50A current sensors (branch circuits)  is live and working!!

Big shout out to Shawn (the Big Boss) for supporting this improvement and making the Vue of even more value.

I updated my Emporia Energy app from the app store, and then from the hamburger/more menu, selected “Manage Devices”, selected the Vue 2, selected the circuit, then I saw new buttons for Unidirectional and Bidirectional.  Ce;lebration!

When I tried to save the changes to the circuit setup, the app then said something like, “The device is updating, try again in one minute.”  I happened to be standing by the breaker panel and heard the Vue beep in about a minute, so I tried again and Voila!

I have three solar inverters and one is a hybrid (does grid inject and also has a battery and can power a backup loads panel) so the flow can be both directions depending on the battery state of charge, the amount of solar input coming in, the amount of consumption in the backup loads panel, and also the internal consumption of this hybrid inverter at night.  So before this update, the circuit type being Solar/Generation, no matter what direction the current was flowing, it reported both as negative flow (back to the grid).   Now, it displays the flow accurately and I assume the measurements over time will now be accurate too.

I expected the order of my three inverters to be either be orderred by kW or by name (Inv1, Inv2, Inv3) but they were not either, so I tried the custom ordering feature of just these 3 circuits, but it seems to have affected the order of the rest of the circuits which is not good, so still working with support on that aspect.

[OneMan]

Parallel was the first test because it was easy with the off-the-shelf splitter.  And with my solar system backfeeding the grid while I was doing these two CT experiments, the measurements I was seeing were hard to understand until Jason told me it was the average of the two and then it made sense.

Parallel gives the average.

Series gives the sum.

I don’t know if CTs in parallel has any practical application but just documenting it here for all those reading and researching.

[OneMan]

@yyzguy, while we are just chatting away about this, one of the things that Jason Binder with Emporia learned (or already knew and showed me) while helping me experiment with multiple CTs is that if the CTs are in parallel (and all on the same phase/line leg), the reading is the AVERAGE of the CTs.  CT1 = 12 amps and CT2 = 6 amps = 9 amps to the Vue2.

[OneMan]

@yyzguy, an electric dryer’s L1 and L2 is for sure unbalanced (unequal current) because of the motor being only on one leg.  But if you have two CTs, one measuring L1 and the other on L2, and you wire the two in series, each being a half cycle/Hertz out of sync with each other, won’t that give an erroneous reading?  I’m thinking it would be positive current and simultaneous negative current which would cancel each other out and ONLY show any current out of balance.  @rcohen has mentioned running the other leg through the CT backwards which wow – could that cancel the cancel?  Love to hear what you two learn.

[OneMan]

@yyzguy, nothing wrong with making your own series “joiner” (a word I use to distinguish from the parallel splitter).  Especially good not to cut the sensor’s wire in the case that it was faulty and you tried to return it to Emporia!

One question – you’re buying 2.5 mm parts?  So you’re making a series joiner for 50 amp branch circuit current sensors?  The 200 amp sensors have 3.5 mm plugs.

When you’re soldering your Amazon parts together, just verify that the sleeve section for both the male and female is connected to the same color wire and do the series join like my first post shows.  Heat shrink tubing over the spliced wires is a nice touch.  Look forward to seeing a pic.  Going to be others who want 2 and even 3 CT series joiners too.

 

 

[OneMan]

@rcohen, regarding having to reverse/flip one of the two CTs wired in series, both monitoring the same leg (L1 or L2), I don’t recall having to do that.

@yyzguy, I didn’t buy any parts other than an extra pair of 200a mains CTs from Emporia.  Two CTs connected to one 3.5 mm plug for L1 and ditto for L2.  When I was done, the waste was a pair of 3.5 mm plugs (male).

If the standard length of the CT wires/leads hadn’t been long enough for my application, I would have had to solder in some 2 conductor wire to extend them.

[OneMan]

@rcohen, yes I tried an audio splitter like this but learned they are parallel not series, so it didn’t work.  This splitter maybe could be cut and soldere

d and turned into a series splitter, but simpler I think to just do it with 2 CTs.  I have been hoping that Emporia would offer a series splitter while we await the feature spoken about over two years ago that they were going to support 2 or more Vues summarized as 1 in the app.

 

I’ve never tried an L2 backwards in the same CT with an L1 forwards but …

 

 

[OneMan]

@rcohen,

Regarding multiple wires in one sensor and unbalanced, you can put multiple wires through any of the sensors as long as they are the same phase meaning that all/both wires are connected to Line 1 (L1) or all/both to Line 2 (L2).  And of course, the Line and Load for all wires must be on the same side meaning that the current is flowing the same direction in all the wires and also flowing the direction of the arrow on the sensor.

I was short a Vue input so I combined my clothes washer and electric dryer onto one sensor I called “Laundry”.  And the dryer is unbalanced meaning that it because the heating element is on L1 and L2 and the motor that blows and tumbles is only on one leg (almost all North American electric dryers are like this).  So using my ammeter, I measured what the other leg/line was using and hand-calculated what the multiplier would need to be to get total usage and put that multiplier in that circuit’s screen in the app.  Not a perfect measurement but I’m satisfied with it.

I didn’t quite follow your question about what sounded like reversing/flipping the sensor or reversing the jack plug (cutting and reversing the wires and resoldering the wires?).

Does that help?

[OneMan]

The mains current sensor (CT) jack is bigger (3.5 mm) than the branch circuit ones (2.5 mm) so NO on that one.

Regarding using 200a sensors for the other breaker panel but plugging them into a branch circuit, assuming you changed the plug end to 2.5 mm size, this won’t give you the result you want either because the Vue assumes the branch circuits are just that – a subset of the mains.  So your panel A mains sensors would report x draw overall to the Vue and your panel B “fake” mains sensors with soldered 2.5 mm plugs on them and plugged into a branch jack would be subtracted from the panel A mains.  The Vue would be worthless.

Regarding the 3 phase Vue, same situation – you can’t input mains current data into a branch circuit.   You’d also likely have trouble with the voltage measurement if it is like the split phase Vue which only monitors the voltage on one leg and assumes the voltage of the other leg/s.

How far apart are your two breaker panels?

[OneMan]

Yes, you can put multiple CTs in series in order to sum up the same phase whether it be the wires feeding a panel, subpanel, branch circuit, etc.  50 amp sensors, 200 amp sensors, rope sensors – doesn’t matter.

A caveat is that a distance of let’s say more than 10 feet between the Vue and one or more of the CTs may give a lower reading due to the resistance in the CT wires.  I suppose the Vue Multiplier feature could be used to adjust for this.

And sometimes (rarely) the two subpanels feeder wires are close together or can be moved a bit to be right next to each other at some point in the run and you can route both L1 wires (hot legs 1) through one CT and you don’t need to series multiple CTs together.  This applies again to any size wires that will fit through the CTs.

And the CTs handle a lot more than the 50a and 200a stated current.  Can’t remember what it is exactly but it’s at least 50% higher than the stated amps.

 

[OneMan]

I don’t dare put a Smart Plug on a fridge or freezer either.

+1 on this suggestion because without some protection on the Smart Plug on/off switch in the app Home Screen, it is just too easy to accidentally tap the icon and make a mess of things.

[OneMan]

If you need 4 mains sensors instead of the normal 2 for a house and the sensor locations will be, say within 20 feet of each other, I’ve come up with a way to join 2 sensors into a series pair and only use one Vue box.  More info at my post at https://community.emporiaenergy.com/topic/gen2-and-2-200-amp-panels/#post-6583

 

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