Still no support for combining two Vues into one virtual Vue?

[sjsc]

As documented in various threads on this board, Emporia has been promising for years that they are about to introduce functionality to combine two Vues into one single virtual Vue. This is important for people who need more than 16 CTs or people (like me) who have a sub-panel far away from the main panel. Emporia, when will you ship this functionality?

November 11, 2020: (#6534)

we are working on the ability to aggregate and combine multiple Vue’s into one load reading.   We hope to have this available within the next couple of months.

June 21, 2022: (#8602)

We do not have a way to ‘merge’ or ‘combine’ sensors, we do have the ability to nest them.  The readings will be separate.

[devdevil85]

I am in the same boat. I need to be able to monitor 42 individual circuits to monitor every circuit in my panel and subpanel. I don’t want to have to look at two separate systems.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by devdevil85.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by devdevil85.

[EddyKilowatt]

Does the “Nest” functionality not serve for your sub-panel far away from the main panel situation?

[devdevil85]

Yes, after speaking with Kevin on Chat he stated:

You can setup a second Gen 2 in the same panel, but you’d skip the 200A CT’s completely since your mains are already monitored with the first unit. Once both are up and running, you can “nest” that second unit under the first from within the app. That’s how you can combine those two units together.

[guy559]

+1 for the ability to combine two Vue Gen2s (e.g., 400A split service in (2) 200A main panels).

I just purchased (4) Vue 2s for this very purpose: two for each main panel and two for the corresponding sub-panels. Sense Flex, Shelly EM, and other solutions can do this… surprised to learn that Emporia can’t. Might need to return these if this isn’t doable, unless there’s a 3rd party app that offers this ability (Home Assistant?)…

[guy559]

Any updates on this functionality?

Have been using (4) Vue2s for ~3 months now. All seems to be working well, though would still like ability to combine the two main panel Vue2s for a single home reading. Seems like it’d be doable with a virtual entry, e.q. Main and sub panels could reside under the virtual entry, just like a sub panel can reside under a main panel (and have its inputs added together).

Am interested to use Emporia’s new PV-related systems for homes but hard to make that leap when a relatively simple change to the app like we’re discussing hasn’t been implemented in ~2 years that it’s been requested (and promised).

Doesn’t fare well for backend customer support for inverter and battery upgrades/software/etc.

[sjsc]

Still nothing. Ridiculous. This should be simple software programming. Emporia doesn’t appear to care.

Here’s another thread noting the problem (#7796, August 2021):

Support for multiple Vue2’s in the same panel is supposed to be done better in a future update, as well as better support for 240V circuits (individual phase roll-up, no multiplier, one/two clamp selection, etc).  ETA unknown – have seen mentions of spring/summer, but now fall is approaching.

And this (#8206, January 2022):

There have not been any app or functionality enhancements regarding monitoring with multiple Vue2’s, nor better 240V circuit support.  Emporia’s focus seemed to be working on the EV car charger.  They also released a web site – in addition to the apps.  But all the functionality on the app remains fundamentally the same as it has been over the past 9 months ago.

And then there’s the related problem that you can’t even combine sensors that are connected to the same Vue 2, so you end up with two separate entries for any 240v appliances connected via two 120v circuits (February 2022, #8376):

I contacted customer support about this and they responded that they’re “hoping” to have the ability to lump two circuits together by the end of this year (2022).  Not sure if this is just a canned response.  Judging by when this thread was first started it’s been a feature that’s been “coming” for quite some time. now. lol.

This is basic stuff. And no, “nesting” doesn’t really help.

It’s increasingly clear that the Vue is at best a cheap-ish piece of hardware that you could flash with ESPHome and use with Home Assistant entirely without the Emporia software, but I bought the Vue 2 (two of them actually) to avoid that time-consuming process. The pitch was plug-and-play, but because Emporia hasn’t added some of these basic software features it isn’t.

 

[johnhall6095]

I’m still waiting for this as well.  :-(. I have two 200 amp panel boxes and one Vue gen 2.  I guess I’m going to have to splice together another pair of CT’s, which I have from a different mointoring product.

[jesse]

I have the dual 200 amp thing too. i bought two vues, but i monitor the second 200a panel’s mains with one of the 50a inputs with a multiplier on the first vue and run the esphome firmware instead of emporia. dashboards in home assistant aren’t as good as the app, but it fits the requirements. put the second vue into a subpanel so now i can monitor the hot tub (ouch!) separate from the AC/heat pump

[mooch91]

ABSOLUTELY need this option.  Can’t say it more strongly.  400A service with 2 x 200A panels is so common in mid-sized homes in the US.  This is probably the biggest drawback since I’ve installed a few days ago, the need to add everything up manually to get real percentages and compare to my utility bill.

[djwakelee]

Sadly its been two years, and no action other than some early commitment by Emporia that this was coming, and now radio silence.  I am at a loss as to why they dropped any work on the Vue2 – seem only focused on new product launches.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by djwakelee.

[mooch91]

Oh, had no idea it’s been that long.  When I was considering the Vue, support told me this was coming still.

Good thing I’m still within my Amazon return window.  Thanks for sharing that this has been in the works for that long.

[ChrisB]

I agree with all of you, I posted in 2021 about it:

Combine Main of multiple Vues

nothing was done.

I just purchased their car charger at Christmas as I wanted to charge the car only on solar panel excess, but I now realize it will not never work because 400A split service in (2) 200A main panels so it does not know what is consumed on the second main. I just forgot about it. As many of you wrote this is common these days, and they are killing themselves not to do it as they want the customers with solar, batteries and electric cars, and those customers often have larger homes with split service.

Anyway, that makes that charger pointless and I should return it on Amazon. In fact, I might put my 3 panel Vue setups on bay as all stats are pointless, it was just good to analyze what was using power, but this is NOT an energy management app for any larger home with split service on one bill.

As the owner of a small softwire company just like them, I really wanted to support them, but this is a bad business and ignorance of market needs while it would be such an easy think to implement from the technical perspective. They are using a cloud database like PostgreSQL and such agregation tables are easy to build (trust me I am a data integration engineer).

Sad.

[ChrisB]

If your main panel has a split like that, Emporia is not for you!

[djwakelee]

In your case, I believe your problem is solvable by augmenting your hardware setup.  If you have a second set of 200A CT’s, place them on the other 200A mains circuit.  Then purchase two mono 3.5mm splitter cables, and combine the CTs of the two 200A feeds.  So mains 1 phase 1 combined with the Y cable to mains 2 phase 1 (Vue 2 port A), and the same for phase 2 with the other splitter (Vue 2 port B).  When combining in parallel, you MUST make sure they are on the same phase.  Hooked up this way you will then have your total consumption.  Now, the Vue2 will still only measure up to 200A, but it would be rare you’d be doing that – even on a 400A service feed.

So yes, Emporia is dragging their feet and may never help us.  But I think the issue of measuring your two 200A feeds as a total is solvable.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by djwakelee.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by djwakelee.

[ChrisB]

Thanks for the suggestion, that would be amazing if it works!
I can actually try that as I have 3 sets of VUE monitors, the third one is in a true sub panel, I can temporarily steal its two 200A CT’s, and try this week end.
If that works, this has to go in an FAQ and even have a kit to go as an add-on for Amazon.

[mooch91]

djwakelee – Not a big fan of running the sensor lines external from one panel to the other which would be required with what you are describing.

[djwakelee]

mooch91 – Not sure of your specific installation, but the two 200A feeds are in the same panel in the photo above.  So Vue2 and all clamps in the same panel in this case.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by djwakelee.

[mooch91]

Thanks djwakelee – I don’t have that option, my feeds are in separate panels.

[yort5thor]

This seems to be the place to add my +1, although my situation is slightly different. I currently have a Main panel outside, then a sub-panel in the house for everything there, and another sub-panel in the garage for the car charger, heat pump, and various lights/plugs. Both the garage sub-panel and the house sub-panel have a full Vue2 set up (200A CTs measuring total in/out, 50A CTs on individual circuits)

I would love to be able to group the House and the Garage under a top-level category, so that I don’t have to mentally add the two numbers together every time I want to know what my total usage is. I have zero interest in buying any more hardware and mucking up the main outdoor panel just to get those two numbers added together.

Otherwise, everything is great – having the Emporia has not only helped me understand my energy usage better, but it helped me identify that the solar installers had mis-configured the Enphase equipment (twice!).

[flyoffacliff]

I have over 20 circuits and had no issues with the 16 CTs. You just need to be strategic. I have two or three circuits on many of them. Any modern electrical system will have at least two kitchen countertop circuits, combine them. The dishwasher and garbage disposal? Combine them. Etc.

 

Spent a good chunk of the day setting up a color-coded plan and rearranging the circuit breakers onto the same leg to make it work. Definitely worth it!

[VA Sunflower]

Add me to the list wanting this feature!

Nesting is not what I want. I want the display to be the same as if I had only one Vue.

I have ordered the mono Y-cables and plan on sending all four 200 amp CTs to one of the Vues, and then nesting the other under this Vue. Closer to what I want but not exactly.

Questions I have:

1) Can I plug the third 200 amp CT into the “C” port and only use one Y-cable, or do I need to use the Y on both?

2) I have solar tapped into one set of mains. Should the mains with the solar taps be the “primary” Vue (i.e. all four 200 amp CTs and the 50 amp solar CTs going to the same Vue), or should it be the nested Vue (i.e. 200 amp CTs go to one vue, and the 50 amp solar CTs go to the other Vue)?

 

Thanks.

[emporiacs]

Hi.

Here’s some additional insight:

1.) Either way should work, but mostly depends on the measurements you’d like to see in the app. Using the Y-cable will combine all sensors (connected together) measurements into a single value for the specified port. Using the available C port should work great, but in this situation one of your “combined” sensors will always read higher than the other two. If you used both services with Y-cables, then you’d get the two values displayed within the app which should be similar to each other. So if you’d like to see your two out of the four service mains separated, with two combined – then one sensor in the C port, and the two service mains on a shared phase w/ the Y-cable would be the way to go. Important pointers for this to work:
– Your Y-cable must connect the sensors in series (not parallel)
– Any sensors spliced/connected together must be monitoring circuit lines (or mains) on the same phase of power

2.) For this particular situation, it won’t matter which Gen 2 is considered the “primary” Gen 2 or not – you’ll just want to make sure that your primary Gen 2 is the one flagged for solar (by selecting the “I have Solar/Generation” during the setup or reset process). The second Gen 2 isn’t required to have that flag set since it’s not tracking any net usage w/ its own 200A CT’s.

[VA Sunflower]

Your Y-cable must connect the sensors in series (not parallel)

 

I’m guessing that the “normal” configuration for a Y-splitter is parallel.

 

you’ll just want to make sure that your primary Gen 2 is the one flagged for solar (by selecting the “I have Solar/Generation” during the setup or reset process). The second Gen 2 isn’t required to have that flag set since it’s not tracking any net usage w/ its own 200A CT’s.

 

That’s an interesting point. I currently have both Vues flagged as “I have solar generation” even though only one  is monitoring the solar production. I guess this is not correct?

 

Thanks for the reply!

[emporiacs]

1.) Yes – most “normal configurations” for audio splitters are in parallel (to provide equal signals to both headsets), so important to find a pair that are different. Also possible to splice sensors directly (in a series configuration) to achieve the same result (w/o any extra adapters).

2.) Is important to have the solar flag set specifically on the device w/ the 200A CT’s monitoring the mains since that is how the device understands the requirement to track bi-directional power flow through those sensors. Doesn’t matter (or hurt) if the second device is flagged or not for that setup part since its 200A CT’s are not used. Is still important to also make sure any solar-specific 50A CT’s on either device to have their circuit type saved as solar/generation however.

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